All Aussie Accounting Adventures - Tech Edition
All Aussie Accounting Adventures - Tech Edition
Deep Dive: Xero
Is Xero still wearing the crown as the accounting software GOAT? In this deep dive, we trace its rise from plucky start-up to global powerhouse, exploring how it shaped careers, transformed businesses, and captured the hearts of small businesses—especially Down Under. But with climbing prices and fierce competition from QuickBooks, MYOB, and emerging players like Henry, is Xero still the one for small biz value hunters?
We’ll pit Xero against the competition while unpacking how power users are levelling up with advanced reporting, tax strategies, and creative practice management hacks. Plus, we’ll explore how mid-market ERPs like NetSuite might be creeping into Xero’s lane.
From the game-changing JAX AI tool to fresh updates like the Client Insights dashboard and the SYFT acquisition, we’re charting Xero’s innovation roadmap. And yes, we’ll dish on areas where Xero still needs a glow-up (we’re looking at you, XPM and Workpapers 👀). Whether you’re a loyal fan or an intrigued newbie, tune in and join the tech accounting adventures with Amy and Ajack.
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Hey Amy, hey Jack.
Speaker 3:How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Should we try that one again?
Speaker 3:Okay, or do we just want?
Speaker 2:to keep on going.
Speaker 1:No, no, we can start again.
Speaker 2:All right, sorry, sorry, everybody Take two hey.
Speaker 1:Amy hey Jack how are you doing? How are you doing?
Speaker 2:How are you doing? What's going on, oh?
Speaker 1:I'm feeling blue. I'm feeling blue, you're feeling blue. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why are you feeling blue buddy? Why?
Speaker 1:Because it's our product, deep dive. It's our zero product. Deep dive today. And if you're not feeling blue, what are you feeling?
Speaker 2:Well, you could be green, you could be red, depends on what color. You could be purple.
Speaker 1:Oh, purple. Purple accounting software that sounds fun, feeling blue.
Speaker 2:Feeling blue. What are we talking about today? We are doing a deep dive. We're doing a product. Deep dive on Xero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think when we looked back at our episode plans for the last few seasons, xero gets attention, but what's the opposite of disproportionate? Everything else gets a disproportionate amount of attention compared to zero in terms of the fact that that's the software that you, your team, your client, are using every single day accounting, tax, practice, management. There's a variety of tools in there, so it probably deserves its own episode, once every few seasons, I figure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree it is the linchpin of. I mean, it is a linchpin of most practices software or a lot of practices, especially in the Australian market Not all practices, I appreciate, but a lot of practices it is a linchpin. It is genuinely the reason why I have a business. Um, it's kind of, you know, it set me up for success since the moment I stepped into the accounting industry. Um, and you know that's basically been the last 15 years of my life. So I, you know, credit where credit's due. I owe the last 15 years of my career to the success and the development of that product and then everything else that has followed through and been connected and been developed. So, yeah, I think it's, let's give it some love and deep dive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't think you're the only one. There's so many people in the ecosystem and accounting firms who have succeeded and built businesses great businesses, flexible businesses off the back of it. It's enabled them and their teams to work from wherever they want, so there's been so many benefits and for small business owners to not have to fumble around with disks. It definitely revolutionized things when it first came out, but you know we're still we're now 15 plus years on from when it started, and so I would absolutely put it in the. You know it's well and truly through the early majority of the market. It's well and truly into the late majority, probably laggard section of the market, which is just the technical definition for people who adopt tech slowly. It's not to call anyone a Lagard, it's just what it's called. But you know that's where they are now. They're a mature product. They're a multi-billion dollar company. So things change.
Speaker 2:They're no longer the fun little startup they were, but I think, at least for me, you know they're still a key contributor to the market and important for us to talk about every now and again, yep, so I guess there's a big question here, yeah well, there's a question here I guess that you know, and this is what we hope to answer in today's episode which is is Xero still the best accounting software to use? Which is is Xero still the best accounting software to use? Now, for those who aren't using Xero in totality, you're probably going to answer no, but for those who I would suggest there are a lot of listeners out there that have a large Xero focus within their practice and their firm I think that that's still a true and correct question to ask. So, is Xero still the best accounting software to use?
Speaker 1:And that encompasses a lot of things. So I mean, maybe I mean, when we talk about it being the best accounting software, that's obviously the Xero blue business. You know accounting files that we're talking about. But you know we've got to consider as well the tax component of Xero, the practice management component of Xero, the ledgers that Xero provide and the ecosystem and all those other bits and pieces which make the actual accounting product good and valuable to an accounting firm or to a business owner. So maybe we break this down when do we go from a pricing perspective, quality perspective, competition perspective? Maybe we start with pricing, you know, is it still good value for money?
Speaker 2:So I think that it is, however, comparatively speaking to some of the other players in the market. However, comparatively speaking to some of the other players in the market like your QuickBooks, your Intuit Wave, my ob is probably comparative there are, like I personally still think that it's really good value for money. However, every time they have a price rise, everybody whinges and bitches and moans. So I mean, for what you get, I think it's still very valuable personally, I don't know what are your thoughts, sir.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I would absolutely agree. I mean, I think they've definitely put down the flag to say, hey, we're the premium solution for small businesses, because we believe we're the best right. These things happen where a startup that's growing super fast, super successfully, has super low prices because they're trying to achieve scale. And then they achieve that scale and then their objectives change to well, how do we take this huge amount of users that we've brought on board and actually start generating profit as a business, which we have to do, as we would all know as accountants? So you know, it's a transition that they've gone through, which is from being a cheap software that's best in the market, but their primary objective is growth. I mean, they're still probably trying to grow as fast as they can, but it's just a slight change to now being probably a little bit more revenue profit orientated. They've got shareholders. They've had that for a long time, but I still think I agree with you, I think there's still great value. I think there's probably the small, small, small, tiny end of town where maybe they start to go.
Speaker 1:Look, I run a side hustle. I sell some jewelry at the markets two days a week and my turnover is maybe $10,000, $20,000 a year that they're like. Why do I want to drop $70 a month or $90 a month, whatever it is? On accounting software, I can get that. I can get that. But if you're running like a business to some full-time, you're in it all the time. We're talking over $100,000 in revenue at least. I think it's pretty reasonable to handle all your accounting for whatever they're charging.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% agree with that one Cool Quality is it still the best product in the market?
Speaker 1:I mean, I'd love to know about a better one. I think this is what we do every day. We talk about this stuff, we help businesses with this stuff and, to be honest, in terms of small business accounting software, I am yet to see something better. Please feel free to send links my way if you found a better app, and I'm sure, at some point right, the incumbent will be zero, zero, knocked off my ob and others, so someone will eventually come along with a, maybe a, an accounting platform that's built from the ground up with AI in mind and super streamlined and whatever else. I can see the potential for it, but I'm not saying I don't see who it is. I haven't seen the app come across my desk at least. So I think, yes, yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree. There's obviously clear functionality that is missing in certain components. There's obviously personal preference around the way that some of the functionality works within the tool, but for the most part I think that the quality of the actual product is good. It's got a clean, easy user interface Just makes sense. It's intuitive, it just yeah, it just makes sense from my perspective.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And obviously they've got a super powerful ecosystem of apps attached to them for those edge cases or nuance needs that people have. So you know, we can't forget about the power of all of those tools which really just extend Xero to make it even more than it is out of the box.
Speaker 2:What about tax?
Speaker 1:I mean, this is your jam a lot more than mine these days, so I'm happy to take your lead. Is it the best tax product that's out there? Nope, nope, nope. Okay, is that news, or am I out of it?
Speaker 2:No, no, no. And when I say that, I'm not saying that it's the worst, no way.
Speaker 2:I think that it is a very good, strong quality tax product for the bulk and majority of small businesses out there. So, yes, on one hand, definitely, but is it the best? No, because there are still products out there. You know, look, my Urban APS asked like they were purpose built originally. You know the desktop applications, those kinds of things, and also, I think there is an element of personal preference that comes down to the needs of what accountants are used to, what they like, what they dislike.
Speaker 2:I think that there are other products that are potentially better from a tax perspective. You've got, you know, ultimately, you've got GovReports, you've got Logit, you've got other tax products I'm talking cloud now products which are out there. Are they as good, better Like there are? I think this is very much a subjective personal preference, but for the bulk of small businesses out there and the needs and requirements of them, and individuals too, obviously, I believe that I mean, you know, zero tax is still. It's still a really good product. The other thing that it is good at, though, is obviously being integrated with the practice management, with the ledgers, with the. That's where, I think, in my opinion, the efficiency gains come from, with the document manager as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean obviously that tax and practice management piece is quite important to an accounting firm, bookkeeping firm who's listening to this and saying, well, is accounting the best accounting software? It's a bigger picture than just that. Is it the best practice software as well? But I mean, at the same time it can be separated and you can have a practice system and you can still recommend Xero to customers even if you're not using Xero for tax and practice management. It's just obviously then a little bit less integrated and a little bit more difficult. But I can understand. You know, for bigger firms especially, they're not Xero only. In a lot of cases they support, you know, clients to choose whichever accounting software they want. But yeah, I mean, is there anything else to add from a practice management piece?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think the lead-on to that, though, is practice management. Is zero practice manager? You know they're still the best in the market. Was it ever? Has it ever been? Look, it's free, depending on how you want to slice and dice this. Yes, accountants still pay for it through, you know, through their partnership agreement, that kind of thing, and having clients on. You know a number of percentage of clients having zero files. That's when it ends up being free, but also it's free.
Speaker 2:So, for what it does, for a free product, in my humble opinion, I think that it does a lot. Is it the best? Absolutely not. I love it because I know it. I've been implementing it for years and I think that you know you can use it really well in the ways that you need to, but for the most part, no, it's not the best product out there. Hands down, they are not trying to be the best either, in my personal opinion, because if they were trying to be the best either, in my personal opinion, because if they were trying to be the best in practice management, then they would have sunk a hell of a lot more dollars into the development of it. They've sunk a little bit into it recently, and they've changed some UIs and they've changed up some functionality and I believe that there's a little bit more to come. But XPM and HQ, they are an interesting mix of product. Hq, definitely. I'm still yet to work out what the vision was there, but I guess that goes back to the point around.
Speaker 2:Zero tax is if you wanted to have zero tax as a standalone product. Why I like it is because there are integrations with other practice management platforms which allow you to still potentially have an integration. But also, if you didn't like XPM, you could run things differently. Like you could use FYI Elite, for example, for your practice management. You could use you know Carbon. You could use you know Account Kit for Workflow, like there's lots of different ways that you can slice and dice it, whereby Xero Practice Manager is still technically part of the picture because it is used as a really good connector to other apps, but you're not actually necessarily using it on the daily. So from that perspective, well, it kind of is good. It ends up being a connector if you don't like it. So I don't know like it's. It's. It's an interesting one. I think it depends on the practice needs. But is it the best out there? No, yeah, but does it do what it needs to do?
Speaker 1:Yes, and yeah, at no cost. It's great value for money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. That's exactly it. So I think but also yeah, I mean, from what you're going to say around people tuning in from the UK, us, that kind of thing. This is a different conversation for them, because the development of the products at the moment because we also haven't mentioned zero work papers, work papers is another one that fits into the overall practice side of things. It's not going to be the same tech stack for you, based on the development and for each region.
Speaker 1:I think that is important because it is a very different situation or experience for firms in the UK for one, and North America for another, and other places in the world separate again, and the focus of Xero and the strategy for them seems to be different in different places, which makes sense. Different markets are different. So, yeah, I think for the context of Xero and the strategy for them seems to be different in different places, which makes sense. Different markets are different. So, yeah, I think for the context of today it's probably primarily AU and Z related. Yeah, cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, awesome. What about the competition? What are we got from a competition perspective?
Speaker 1:I mean it feels like the. So you've obviously got all your standard old, you know reckons and myobs of the world that are out there and there's still businesses using them and that's fine. They may have, you know, made it through the 15-year period where other businesses have been benefiting from Xero's advantages and I don't know. I'll have to be honest and say I haven't used like my Arbor Reckon in a long time, so I can't speak to it. But I can certainly speak to the fact I don't see many business owners or finance leaders coming across and talking to me saying that's what they're using. So it suggests to me that it's not the best out there. Otherwise I'd probably be hearing a little bit more about it. I am definitely seeing the micro business side of things hotting up. So this is back to the actual accounting software itself rather than the practice and tax side of it.
Speaker 1:So there's, you know, every zero poster posts an ad on social media. It's, you know it gets hammered, which you know I don't want to be the. You know I feel for the social media person who's just trying to get the posts out. But you know, yes, every, every man and their dog are commenting about price rises and hikes and all this kind of stuff, which I get it, but to our point earlier, still feels like it's good value for money.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:There are a couple of other apps out there that seem to be taking advantage of that and saying, hey, maybe the market's ready for something a little bit different and I think by being extremely targeted on a very micro customer, I can see how they may be able to differentiate and solve a problem for them. So there's an app called the easy business app, which is kind of like all-in-one, you know, not just accounting but a little bit more to it. But for very small businesses, you've got your henry's of the world as well. Um, I think there's another one out there. I can't remember their name, um, but you know henry's basically saying, oh, we'll do, you know, we'll do your accounting and we'll do your tax and all this kind of stuff where question marks on the quality of all of that stuff. But it's interesting nonetheless. There's some well-funded apps out there. So obviously there's an interest from some big investors in what that might look like moving forward. But in terms of you know, the space zero really are targeting and and are strongest in quickbooks. Is is probably the key player there. I would say, um, I don't see that much of them quickbooks online, that is, in in australia, new zealand, asia, but there's a little bit of it, and obviously they're a behemoth company over in north america. They're pretty big in the uk as well, so you know, all it takes is, you know, for them to flex a little bit and we'll probably notice them a little bit more. Um, but I from all reports at least from the people that I talked to who have used both recently it's still still not as good as Xero QuickBooks Online. So they're the ones.
Speaker 1:There's some more like, I suppose, upper market players as well. Odoo is a newer, like mid-market ERP. I guess You've got your other ERPs, your NetSuites and Microsoft Dynamics and stuff like that, which I would say are well and truly not Xero's competition. However, although Xero is not focused on that market, they plus their ecosystem apps like Mayday and that's the kind of stuff that we talk a lot about and help businesses with on a regular basis is that you can actually take Xero to that level. You just need to know the ecosystem really well and and so inevitably they are starting to compete with the mid-market erp, but not out of their own, they're not really focused on. It's just kind of happening organically. So that's quite interesting to watch. But, um, yeah, odoo netsuite there's a few other erps out there, but in terms of zero sweet, I'd put them my quickbooks in that bucket and I'd have to say Xero still stands tall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool Tax products.
Speaker 1:Logit.
Speaker 2:GovReports, cch they're all tax products. Ledgers you've got, obviously, myorb Handy slash Access I'm still yet to work out which version is anyway Getting there. Getting there XPA I mean that's server-based, so it's APS obviously as well. Active ledgers by Business Fitness. You've also got QBO's ledgers. Something interesting in the space of ledgers, though and financial reporting as well from a Xero perspective is probably the ability to create a lot more customizable styles of reporting. So I was speaking to someone recently whereby two actual, like sort of slightly outside of the box using Xero for tax planning and just the way that you set up your financial reporting and using, again, self-managed super funds, which you know, therefore means that you could lodge them directly through Xero tax, as opposed to and I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't use, you know, bgl or class for you know self-managed super funds, but it's just more. I'm like, oh, people are starting to think a little bit outside the box here, which is kind of cool, yeah nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, practice, if you go down the practice management, look, there are definitely other options out there apart from Zero Practice Manager. You've obviously got FYI Elite. You've got Cloud Connect practice manager you've obviously got FYI Elite. You've got Cloud Connect. You've got the Access versions, um, which is the Access Cloud version. Uh, you've got QBOA. You've got my Old Practice Manager, or slash Greatsoft, depending um. You've got CCH, ifm, you've got Carbon. You've got a whole heap of other ones. One other one that's on the market though, um, financial sense um, which is probably more connected to qbo. So, yeah, there's definitely definitely many other options from a practice perspective, which um is, you know, something to consider. What I find interesting, though, about those ones is one, two, three, four, five, six of them actually connecting with zero tax. Well, that's good as a side note. Yeah, so if, hence the going back to the zero tax, the best. Sorry, I know we're jumping around a little bit, but you know it covers off a hell of a lot, but also it integrates. If you didn't like practice management, you've got options there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's really good to know and that plays to zero strategy more broadly around being open and being willing to kind of play ball with a bunch of different partners rather than trying to hold everything close to their chest.
Speaker 1:So that generally works really well for the consumer, which is us at the end of the day accounting firms, small businesses.
Speaker 1:So I mean we maybe, before we just pause and listen to our sponsors, because I know we're going to kind of change tack for this next part of the conversation am I safe to say that, if we go back to that question, is Xero still the best accounting software to use before we start talking about where's it going next? I mean it feels like when we, when we look at the quality and say we think it's still the best small business accounting software, we look at the price and still say it's good value for money. You know, I appreciate the price has increased substantially. I understand why from business perspective that has, because it used to actually be quite cheap, but we're still saying we still think it's good value for money. It's got flexibility to work with a variety of different practice management systems. It has a good tax product. That overall it still feels like it ticks that box of being the best accounting software, broadly speaking, in the market. Is that fair yeah?
Speaker 2:I think something that we also haven't covered, really briefly integrations. It is one of the most heavily integrated accounting apps on the marketplace. I'd say, if not the most integrated apps on the marketplace, I'd say if not the most integrated.
Speaker 2:so from a from an end user perspective, not from an accounting firm's perspective, but from your client's perspective. Most small businesses, even if zero as a standalone product, isn't enough to run their their business operationally, it's that as their accounting software, plus something that is integrated from like whether it's an inventory piece of software, whether it's a, you know, whatever it is, whatever they're into, um zero can typically integrate with it. And that's another major kicker here oh absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:I say yes is the answer to this, but I'm also biased because you know, I've been a zero love child since days gone by feeling blue all right, let's listen to our, let's do our sponsors.
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Speaker 4:If there's one thing that I know, ali, is that I need a lot of help Now, outside of personal life stuff, it's when I'm running my accounting business. I can get stuck in my head. I'm going round and round in circles, but you know, there is someone out there who can actually help you as an accounting firm owner, to do good stuff.
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Speaker 1:Cool. So we've had a good chat about whether or not Xero is still the best accounting software to use. We've discussed a few of the other competitors in the market where they stand from a tax perspective, practice management perspective, the benefits, the price, all of that and we've landed on and agree that it still probably is the best in the market. I think I'm always open to innovation. I love to see new stuff. So, given how close to home, accounting is very interested. If there's any new players out there that I'm not aware of that we're not talking about, I'm always interested to hear about them.
Speaker 2:Please let us know. Yep, I'm the same.
Speaker 1:But on that note of what's new, I guess if we land on it being the best, then it's also interesting to discuss where's it going? Is it going to stay that way? And I feel like there's actually quite a bit happening in this space After many years of going to Zerocon and I think I may have had a public post on LinkedIn or two where I basically said you know, hey, we can't keep talking about bank feeds and open APIs that were there 15 years ago and that was what you, you know, that's what made Xero so great in the early days. But can we not get some more innovation now, like, can we move on from those and accept they are just kind of I remember that post.
Speaker 2:by the way. Yeah, I remember you doing that.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I still, but I do feel like the wheels are starting to turn again and I know they've been through some changes of management and leadership and all these things and I appreciate that the business, at the stage that it's at, it's very complex. Uh, you know, organization that it's not. It's not the fun little startup that can just produce new features every other week, um, but yeah, I do think I personally do think there's there's some good signs, um, and I mean I guess I can kind of shout a few of those out. I think it's interesting what they're doing with the Client Insights dashboard. That's, from what I understand, like an extension of HQ, you know, showing key data on your clients, and they've said that they have big plans to enhance that more. I mean, they have so much data at their disposal that would be so useful for firms to be able to see across their client base. I see the potential for that, you know. I think it's a good starting point. I would like to see more of it and they say more is coming. So that's interesting.
Speaker 1:The acquisition of SIFT is quite a big one when we look at other acquisitions they've made in the past HubDoc, you know lot of firms still argue that that's not an amazing product compared to something like Dext, but I see a lot of finance teams use it and they seem to find it fine. I think that's where you're just a standalone business or you're dealing with hundreds of clients. There might be different use cases, but SIFT is an exciting product. It's a good product. People use it for their reporting, dashboards, consolidations. There's other tools out there, great tools other than them, but it's still an interesting acquisition. It'll be cool to see how that gets embedded or if it does get embedded.
Speaker 1:I think that'll be key.
Speaker 2:At the roadshow Jax, not Jack. Yeah, Jax.
Speaker 1:J-A-X Just, jax J-A-X Just ask Zero J-A-X.
Speaker 2:Just ask Zero Um Zero's inbuilt AI, currently in beta um coming soon, so that looked pretty damn cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice.
Speaker 2:I really liked that. I really liked seeing it at the roadshow. I was like, well, this is going to be a bit fun.
Speaker 1:I mean, it makes so much sense, like I really liked seeing it at the roadshow. I was like, oh, this is going to be a bit fun. I mean, it makes so much sense. Like you look at what we're all doing with ChatGPT or whatever AI tools you're using and like how powerful they are, and then you're like, oh, wouldn't it be great if it understood my accounting data. It's like that's what. Like that's why I'm so excited that I'll be disappointed if it doesn't deliver on the promise.
Speaker 1:In a way, like it seems like there's just so much that you could use it for to be able to go in there and like, yeah, sure, pull up, like hey, can you let me know my top five outstanding invoices? Sure, but I'd love to be able to go to that next level of like why am I not making profit? You know, like it's like. Well, I can't tell you what your customers are doing, but I can tell you that you're not generating enough from these sources. These seem to be higher margin products. These are lower margin. Why are you not doing more of these? I feel like there's problems there that it could break down in time and that will be really interesting to me.
Speaker 2:I feel like XPM and zero work papers Now. Now, this is a challenging one and.
Speaker 2:I appreciate, probably commercially, why this is the, the reason being that they are classified as technically free products sure but I feel like they are two very underdeveloped um applications which I feel like if any of the zero people are listening and they would like to act on this, please develop those two products more. But equally, as I said, I understand commercially the reasons why they probably haven't been as developed. So I would love to see and I know that we're not talking about, I mean, we're talking about what's new. This is probably what's not new in this instance.
Speaker 2:But Xero work papers and XPM look, they would be some new functionality in those would be really good. Maybe they don't think that they need to, but Xero Workpapers, I feel like is the most underdeveloped, but could be really cool if they actually just spend a little bit of time in it. That's one thing that I've noticed around Xero Workpapers.
Speaker 1:I mean on the XPM front. One thing that I've noticed around zero work papers. I mean on the XPM front. I thought that half the reason they were cutting off the Workflow Max side of it was to basically like, hey, you know, this is great, someone else can take this and do what they want with it. Because we kind of need XPM to be here so that we can fix up the tech debt, fix up the old code, because it is you know, you can see it.
Speaker 1:Is you know, you can see it when you use a bit of an old, an old style product like it it's getting rejuvenated in the background, from what I understand, and getting rid of workflow max allow them to kind of focus their attention on just the accounting component of it, not the like general workflow component. Um, so I don't know if that's a like hey, we're at step one of that and so, like, once that's cleaned up, then we can move to step two, which will be making this better. I don't know, but I appreciate commercially why, yeah to your point why it wouldn't be getting a ton of attention, for sure yeah, exactly um.
Speaker 2:What else is what else is new? What else have we seen that's new in there?
Speaker 1:I mean recently, ish, they, they released the like the analytics inside of um, inside of zero. So that's that like cash flow, quick cash flow reporting, those kinds of things. Um, and this is like I think we've got to keep in mind, as accountants and bookkeepers who are in this stuff every day, who understand this to a detailed degree, that the features that get released inside of the ZeroBlue accounting software are often designed for small business owners, not for technical people, and so, like you know, it's easy to go into their analytics and cash flow and break it down. But oh, this is incorrect, it doesn't allocate super correctly, or it doesn't allocate and doesn't take into account this or this or this. It's like that's cool.
Speaker 1:But you know, for some small business owners owners, they just need like a real high level cash in, cash out prediction over the next three weeks to figure out whether or not I'm going to have enough to pay payroll. And sure there's. You know if it's not right, how helpful is that? But I think it's, it's moving in the right direction. It looks really nice, it's easy to kind of update and edit for your own custom needs. And then you've got other apps. You've got float, you've got these other tools, cash flow forecasting tools, if you want to go deeper than that. So I think that's you know it's moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah, the App Store that's had a bit of a facelift as well in recent times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same as their.
Speaker 2:ZeroLearn as well, their ZeroLearn platform, which is not called ZeroLearn. I'm very sorry about that. I'm like oh, what's it called again?
Speaker 1:Not central.
Speaker 2:Is it called ZeroLearn? Maybe it is, but that's had a facelift in recent times as well. They keep on changing that and it just makes it easier and easier. I log in to keep up my accreditation.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh, this is even cleaner, oh, this is even better. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I agree, I agree with that. And yeah, I mean I think the App Store is getting. I mean, obviously for them it's actually a revenue generating part of their business because, you know, if you sign up to an app through the App Store, Xero do get to take a little bit of the revenue, which is all the reason in the world for them to advertise and market.
Speaker 1:And as an app that's on the App Store, we love nothing more than for an app to sign up through there, because at the end of the day, that means that through whatever means they've found us by being in Xero, they go to little pop-up appears to say would you like to check out the App Store? They go to little pop-up appears to say would you like to check out the app store? They go there, they look for some apps, they find us Great. We'd be happy to give away some revenue for those connections I suppose that they'd be making. So I think it's good that the app store is getting love.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, so many business owners are using just Xero and that's cool for a lot of them, but there's a huge amount that have more complex needs than just Xero and they need to be using one, two, three, four add-ons and they're not necessarily even aware that those apps are out there. We're all in a bubble. We all know about this stuff. We go to Xerocon every year. We think everyone knows about these tools, but the reality is so many don't, and keeping their finger on the pulses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the reality is so many don't. And keeping their finger on the pulses yeah so the app store is a good opportunity for those people to be informed of what's out there, which I think is cool. Yeah, cool.
Speaker 2:To round out I was going to suggest? What have we got on the? Do you know much about what their longer-term focus is from a Xero perspective?
Speaker 1:A little bit.
Speaker 1:So I mean, they do an investor presentation every year and they may even do it more than once a year, and you can publicly access the decks and all that kind of stuff because obviously they are publicly listed.
Speaker 1:So feel free to go do that if you're interested, and we have a look at it whenever we can, because it helps us understand what are Xero's objectives and if we as an app that adds on to Xero can help them, then we want to do that because we're partners in business, I suppose.
Speaker 1:But interestingly, you know, they've kind of doubled down on their focus of small business accounting where basically, like they've got this little chart that says you know small businesses in the middle, there's like micro businesses on the left and then maybe there's like sole trader tiny little side hustles further to that and the colour gets like bright green, lighter green, really dull green, as you kind of go out from that space and they're really saying look for small businesses and slightly adjacent to that, which is like your micros but also your small to medium businesses are their sweet spot, anything bigger than that, and they're kind of saying, look, we service them, but it's not really our core promise and anything smaller than the micros. Once again, we can service them if they want us. But you know, which probably justifies why they might not be priced for someone like that because it's not actually their core target audience.
Speaker 2:So I mean I think that's just interesting to note be priced for someone like that because it's not actually their core target audience.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean, I think that's that's just interesting to note, um, but I think you know for them it doesn't take a genius to figure out that zero's got most of the market in australia, new zealand, um, that they're in. They're in some other really competitive markets like the uk and the us and, from a global management strategic perspective, those markets that they don't have huge or they don't own the market in are going to be getting a lot of attention, and new markets where maybe there are no competitors or, you know, they're trying to north america.
Speaker 2:Are they heavy in north america as well in canada? Um, I mean they're well, canada, not north, sorry, not north america, sure, canada, canada I mean they're definitely like there with like quickbooks Canada.
Speaker 1:Well, canada, not North America, sorry, not North.
Speaker 3:America, sure.
Speaker 1:Canada. Sorry, my bad, I mean they're definitely like there with like QuickBooks and Xero would be there, but I still. If I'm not mistaken, QuickBooks would still be the predominant player.
Speaker 1:Probably and then the US definitely QuickBooks is, but you know they seem committed to doubling down there and trying to do more. So you know it's only good for them as a business if they succeed. But yeah, I think at the end of the day I can understand why. I guess they've got a whole Australian team though, so the whole Australian team is focused on the Australian market.
Speaker 2:So it's not like we're not going to get any love, yeah, correct, but I do appreciate there are a lot of early adopters out there that feel like we've been forgotten. In terms of the product development and I think I mean we've mentioned this on past episodes which is, you know, the Australian NZ market, we are phenomenally spoiled with the quality of the development of our apps in this ecosystem. Extraordinarily spoiled with the quality of the development of our apps in this ecosystem, like so spoiled. So, um, yeah, sure, I always want to see it developing and still remaining the best, but you know, commercially they also have to make business decisions as well, hence the, as you say, heavily investing in the us and things like that.
Speaker 1:so, yeah, and I think if you are a early adopter and you love tech and you wish you were always doing more, all you have to do is look just outside Xero and say, well, okay, I want to move faster, I want more happening, I want newer features, I want cooler stuff. What else? That's what all of us are working on right. All of us ecosystem app partners are out there. We're startups, we're moving at rapid pace, we're releasing new features every week and a lot of us are relevant to a lot of your clients. So I'm not saying all of it, but I think there's enough fun out there that's happening that if you just look just outside of Xero. That's the power of Xero is that they say, and they've always said, we're not going to do it all.
Speaker 2:So therefore you just look slightly adjacent and you'll find a whole bunch of fun stuff happening. Yeah. So to ask that question again is Xero still the best accounting software to use?
Speaker 1:I feel like the answer is yes. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think so, and I still think it's by margin like a reasonable margin.
Speaker 4:So I'm all for competition.
Speaker 1:I'm all for competition, but I just don't know who's? Competing at least in Australia and New Zealand. I don't think it's close.
Speaker 2:So we're feeling blue, but happy blue like Smurf blue. Oh, Is that where we go? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Anyway, happy Smurf blue zero yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's a great place to wrap it up. All right, we're delusional let's, let's finish this all right thanks jack bye hey team, it's ellie and and from All Aussie Accounting Adventures here.
Speaker 3:I hope you really enjoyed this episode with Amy and Jack. What did you think, andrew?
Speaker 4:Oh, stunning as always.
Speaker 3:The two of them are brilliant minds and are brilliant communicators.
Speaker 4:So we hope that you have got some incredible learnings out of this episode and if you'd like to continue to follow us, make sure you check out our website. Find us on the socials You'll see Accounting Adventures, or look for All Aussie Accounting Adventures, wherever good stuff can be found, whether that's conferences, whether that's websites, whether that's podcasts or social media.
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